Curse

Improvavel · Jan 12, 2010, 08:21 PM // 20:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mcsnake85

Wow..ppl still skipping the problem...who care of get another currency?Who care about ectos price or black dye or lockpicks?Who care about drop rate (never changed)?
We are just skipping problem..i try to explain this for the last time, and let see if someone understand :
I have 100$ and 10 grams of gold,(necklaces,rings,bangles etc..)...I need to buy a jewel for my girlfriend and jewel seller acept cash and gold (in grams) as payment. 1gram of gold worth for example 10$ Ok?Jewel price is 90$...Seller say "you can pay me with full cash,full gold or both"...so i can pay 90$ or with 9 grams of gold...untill now no problems.
Lets suppose i need to buy another jewel, but when i go to buy it gold price is 15$ for a gram...jewel cost 90$...so i can pay 90$ or 90& in gold,that mean=6 grams (intead 9 grams).
Lets suppose that gold worth, instead, 5$ for a gram..so i need pay that jewel 18g...
Intead gold and cash just put ectos and platinum...the problem is that ppl overprice items now that ectos worth more..
And the worse thing is that ppl cover this thing (who have items)...btw i cant say nothing because is legal sell for less or oversell items, i just write to warning ppl about this fact.
"Ectos" never cause problems, just speculators cause always problems.

No - the question is that its harder to get ectos now then it was before.

Every time Anet nerfs a farm it is creating an unfairness in the game - they are rewarding the players that were actively farming and bashing the players were doing something else.

Ecto is the way some players have of shutting down newer people to get in the high end trading.

How you ask?

Simple - they accumulated loads of ectos in the days on protective bond, etc,etc. Each time ecto price goes up it means you need to either farm more ectos or you need to spend more platinum to buy 1 ecto.

Of course today is harder to farm ectos and is bond to get harder with the SF nerf and other farm nerfs.

That is why minipets and other items don't cost platinum - they cost ectos. They cost 300 ectos today with ectos at 7.5k and they will cost 300 ectos tomorrow with ectos at 15k. And when there are too many people with 300 ectos the item price will go to 500 ectos. Remember the chaos SF farming times when ectos went down to 4k? Stuff that was 200ectos shot up to 1000 ectos.

Ectos is a way of rewarding older players that have hoarded them when UW was a lot easier to farm.

And for those that think drop rates were never changed go say that to raptors.

The only way to break this circle is to diminish the ecto price making it used for its purpose - Obby armor and chaos gloves.

If Anet wished people to easily accumulate fortune they would have no gold cap. Anet wished for people to have their fortune spent in stuff that wouldn't be worth anymore like armors and customized weapons (why the hell do you think customization exist?). And later titles and even the mini pets.

The easiest way to remove ecto as currency is to not allow it to stack on the trade box.

Doing that assures that nothing else will replace the gold as currency (well there is one candidate - armbraces, but I doubt people have hoards of them).

TkDj · Jan 12, 2010, 08:36 PM // 20:36

The problem is, we already paid to play Anet's game. So they could really care less about our opinion.

Mcsnake85 · Jan 12, 2010, 09:53 PM // 21:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Improvavel

No - the question is that its harder to get ectos now then it was before.

Every time Anet nerfs a farm it is creating an unfairness in the game - they are rewarding the players that were actively farming and bashing the players were doing something else.

Ecto is the way some players have of shutting down newer people to get in the high end trading.

How you ask?

Simple - they accumulated loads of ectos in the days on protective bond, etc,etc. Each time ecto price goes up it means you need to either farm more ectos or you need to spend more platinum to buy 1 ecto.

Of course today is harder to farm ectos and is bond to get harder with the SF nerf and other farm nerfs.

That is why minipets and other items don't cost platinum - they cost ectos. They cost 300 ectos today with ectos at 7.5k and they will cost 300 ectos tomorrow with ectos at 15k. And when there are too many people with 300 ectos the item price will go to 500 ectos. Remember the chaos SF farming times when ectos went down to 4k? Stuff that was 200ectos shot up to 1000 ectos.

Ectos is a way of rewarding older players that have hoarded them when UW was a lot easier to farm.

And for those that think drop rates were never changed go say that to raptors.

The only way to break this circle is to diminish the ecto price making it used for its purpose - Obby armor and chaos gloves.

If Anet wished people to easily accumulate fortune they would have no gold cap. Anet wished for people to have their fortune spent in stuff that wouldn't be worth anymore like armors and customized weapons (why the hell do you think customization exist?). And later titles and even the mini pets.

The easiest way to remove ecto as currency is to not allow it to stack on the trade box.

Doing that assures that nothing else will replace the gold as currency (well there is one candidate - armbraces, but I doubt people have hoards of them).

oh...so if ectos price raise you can still sell things to same price (rippoffing ppl), if they go down you raise the price (if raise in base at price np)?I call this speculation,rippoff and legal "scamm"..

greenthumb · Jan 12, 2010, 11:40 PM // 23:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by billypowergamer

This is probably the most elegant solution to the whole issue in my opinion. Create an item (Xunlai Bank Note or something to that effect), make it available at the trader for 5k and you can sell it back at 5k. No more worrying about current market price of ectos for high end trades.

If too problematic to make direct changes to the currency caps, a new NPC trader that buys and sells a new denomination stackable item (10k, 100k, etc.) for the same price would seem to make more sense (notes, gold bar, platinum bar, etc.) rather than forcing players to invest in a commodity with fluctuating prices and subject to a trading spread by a NPC trader.

At least players would have such a choice as to how to store their accumulated wealth rather being forced to speculate by amassing ectos, zkeys, etc.

Just to note, in the short-term, there would likely be significantly reduced demand for ectos where some players convert their wealth away from ectos.

Improvavel · Jan 13, 2010, 12:10 PM // 12:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mcsnake85

oh...so if ectos price raise you can still sell things to same price (rippoffing ppl), if they go down you raise the price (if raise in base at price np)?I call this speculation,rippoff and legal "scamm"..

There is a reason the Dollar and the Euro are preferred currencies in real world and not some Asian, South American or African coin.

This is the same way - gold and platinum are basically worthless in GW - the only worth they have is that they can be turned into ectos.

We generally think "Wow ecto is only 4k - that means ecto is really weak" or "Wow ecto is 15K - that means ecto is really strong". But what it means is "Wow ecto is only 4k - that means gold/platinum is really strong".

Call it semantics if you want.

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenthumb

If too problematic to make direct changes to the currency caps, a new NPC trader that buys and sells a new denomination stackable item (10k, 100k, etc.) for the same price would seem to make more sense (notes, gold bar, platinum bar, etc.) rather than forcing players to invest in a commodity with fluctuating prices and subject to a trading spread by a NPC trader.

At least players would have such a choice as to how to store their accumulated wealth rather being forced to speculate by amassing ectos, zkeys, etc.

Just to note, in the short-term, there would likely be significantly reduced demand for ectos where some players convert their wealth away from ectos.

You got it mixed - people aren't forced to invest in a commodity with fluctuating prices. People are rewarded by the game by a commodity with fluctuating (ecto) prices called gold/platinum.

Mcsnake85 · Jan 13, 2010, 12:30 PM // 12:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Improvavel

There is a reason the Dollar and the Euro are preferred currencies in real world and not some Asian, South American or African coin.

This is the same way - gold and platinum are basically worthless in GW - the only worth they have is that they can be turned into ectos.

We generally think "Wow ecto is only 4k - that means ecto is really weak" or "Wow ecto is 15K - that means ecto is really strong". But what it means is "Wow ecto is only 4k - that means gold/platinum is really strong".

Call it semantics if you want.

You got it mixed - people aren't forced to invest in a commodity with fluctuating prices. People are rewarded by the game by a commodity with fluctuating (ecto) prices called gold/platinum.

Dont agree with "There is a reason the Dollar and the Euro are preferred currencies in real world and not some Asian, South American or African coin." because in guild war there arent continents with "different type of money" (in kamadan pay with gold/platinum/ectos, same in kaineng and same in LA).
All ppl in game pay with same type of things...Ectos are $ if you trust or not,thats the truth...Its a simple thing to understand, why its so difficult?
For example , to get 14e you need pay 100k, so this mean that a ecto worth 7.14k and that mean when you buy something in ectos instead platinum if you paying in ectos they worth 7.14k each.
Ppl buy ectos because there is a limit of 100k and 1000k on storage..if i have no more space to get money what i suppose to do?Stop play?Stop sell?Stop farm?No, i just buy ectos and get money again..if i refill again all i need to do is just buy other ectos...Ectos need to pay items over 100k too,so if you want 200k items you need 100k+ectos or YOU CANT PAY...Or simply you can pay full ectos, no problem...this is not mean that ectos is the currency because you buy all for money NOT FOR ECTOS, even ectos are bought with money (platinums)..

Quote:

We generally think "Wow ecto is only 4k - that means ecto is really weak" or "Wow ecto is 15K - that means ecto is really strong". But what it means is "Wow ecto is only 4k - that means gold/platinum is really strong".

Ectos can worth 4k/each or 15k each,. this dont change nothing you still need them to pay items over 100k...if they worth 4k you need add a lot of ectos, if they worth 15k you just need add less ectos...
The players just tryng to raise items price with no reason, ectos are just "week" or "stronge" add....
This is the truth.

Improvavel · Jan 13, 2010, 02:52 PM // 14:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mcsnake85

Dont agree with "There is a reason the Dollar and the Euro are preferred currencies in real world and not some Asian, South American or African coin." because in guild war there arent continents with "different type of money" (in kamadan pay with gold/platinum/ectos, same in kaineng and same in LA).
All ppl in game pay with same type of things...Ectos are $ if you trust or not,thats the truth...Its a simple thing to understand, why its so difficult?
For example , to get 14e you need pay 100k, so this mean that a ecto worth 7.14k and that mean when you buy something in ectos instead platinum if you paying in ectos they worth 7.14k each.
Ppl buy ectos because there is a limit of 100k and 1000k on storage..if i have no more space to get money what i suppose to do?Stop play?Stop sell?Stop farm?No, i just buy ectos and get money again..if i refill again all i need to do is just buy other ectos...Ectos need to pay items over 100k too,so if you want 200k items you need 100k+ectos or YOU CANT PAY...Or simply you can pay full ectos, no problem...this is not mean that ectos is the currency because you buy all for money NOT FOR ECTOS, even ectos are bought with money (platinums)..

Ectos can worth 4k/each or 15k each,. this dont change nothing you still need them to pay items over 100k...if they worth 4k you need add a lot of ectos, if they worth 15k you just need add less ectos...
The players just tryng to raise items price with no reason, ectos are just "week" or "stronge" add....
This is the truth.

You are talking about apples and I'm talking about oranges.

People don't buy "14 ectos for 100k". Well they do but there isn't where ectos mostly come.

People farmed thousand of ectos long time ago.

All I'm just saying is ecto isn't a fair currency.

People keep complaining that UWSC and other SC allow to make loads in a few minutes, especially compared to normal play style.

But power trading compared to SC allows even more and a part of that is based on ectos being a currency.

So no one is having a hard time grasping the concept of ectos as an additional currency.

Ectos simply allow fortunes that were made based on farms/exploits that no longer exist to exist this day and so defeating the purpose of the gold cap.

I'm not discussing here if the gold cap is a good idea or not, although I know that came from a time Anet insisted on "skill not playing time".

I'm just saying that having ectos as a the way to go around the gold cap plus a gold cap is even worse in the purpose of balancing "skill not playing time" than not having a gold cap.

Abedeus · Jan 13, 2010, 03:40 PM // 15:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by TkDj

The problem is, we already paid to play Anet's game. So they could really care less about our opinion.

Sure. That is, if they give a damn about future customers in their future games.

ARGH!! COULDN'T CARE MORE! COULDN'T!

Lusciious · Jan 13, 2010, 03:49 PM // 15:49

IMO, the reason behind why people sell voltaic spears at 60e even when ectos are at 4k or when they are at 8k is because they don't know the value of voltaic spear . Simply because not everyone started 4-5 years ago ... not everyone knows the prices of rare items ... and also because of the fact that humans are greedy, we think that because what i have is rare, i can sell it for whatever i want because only i have it and because the supply is low, prices would be forced high .

similarly to a monopoly . if you're the only company that owns 100% of the market share of a product, no one can tell you how much you want to set the price of your product at because only you have it . So because of greed, you, the one who has the rare item, who inflated the price of rare items in the first place . not some other "Add" on currency like armbraces or ectos.

These "add" on currecies are just used to allow us to bypass the 100k limit .

Solution ? simple . Make a guide which is updated frequently with the prices of items . The one who decides this price is the economy which is based on supply (how much is it farmed) and demand (whether if it is in the current trend / cool etc) . not the buyer or the seller .

the industry is the price maker . the sellers (us) are price takers . we don't have control over the price . this is somewhat similar to a perfect competition . it is easy to enter the economy . start farming . earn some money . power trade ectos with high end items .

well with the proposed idea of a pricing guide, it doesn't matter if ecto prices drop to 1k because it is being over farmed. Since you know that VS costs 240k, you simply add 100k + 140e to it . if prices of ectos rise to 5k, it doesn't mean that prices of VS would rise . you would still pay 100k + 24e for it . the only time when prices of VS would increase is if there is a decrease in quantity supplied (nerf to a farming team build for VS?) of it thus making it go rare . when everyone starts farming again, prices of VS would go back to normal, if not lower in the case of VS being over farmed.

p.s. you must be wondering if i had 100 ectos and prices rises to 7k from 4k per ecto, wouldn't i have earned 300k ? yes you have but because what you have is becoming a scarce currency . there is no reason why prices of ectos would rise . once someone releases a easy/fast farming build for ectos, prices would simply fall again.

Mcsnake85 · Jan 13, 2010, 06:49 PM // 18:49

In other website there are prices, here there are prices..btw ppl still overprice items....
A guide dont change nothing.

YunSooJin · Jan 13, 2010, 09:00 PM // 21:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mcsnake85

In other website there are prices, here there are prices..btw ppl still overprice items....
A guide dont change nothing.

so a guide changes sumtin, amirite dawg?

Lusciious · Jan 13, 2010, 10:38 PM // 22:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mcsnake85

In other website there are prices, here there are prices..btw ppl still overprice items....
A guide dont change nothing.

no one uses them because no one knows about them ..

Mcsnake85 · Jan 14, 2010, 08:55 AM // 08:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lusciious

no one uses them because no one knows about them ..

ok ok can be....but if they dont use them because prices are too low?or for buyer to high?If on google you search" Guild Wars PC on xxxx " (xxxx=Item Name) you can found in first page this site and other site for PCs.
So you can chek the price when you want, or ask for a PC in Price check section.
So dunno if ppl dont know site for price cheking.

Lusciious · Jan 14, 2010, 10:04 AM // 10:04

1) because they don't bother to use them and not because prices or too low or for buyer too high .

2) You can't google a price check . the prices are never right . the results that show up on google if you type "Guildwars PC XXXX" are the threads which contains these words . what's on that thread is the price that that seller wants . it's not the actual price of the weapon .
how long does it take for a PC on the PC section to get a reply ? long ... if everyone asked for 2-3 PCs everyday, would you want to reply to every single price check ? no . if you ask me, i wouldn't do it either . what do you gain from doing all that ? nothing .

Mcsnake85 · Jan 14, 2010, 10:57 AM // 10:57

Ok suppose you are right..so all prices on GW and prices in this or other sites are random?
I understand that prices are made just to have a idea of what an item worth,btw a lot of ppl refer to this site or other when they sell/buy...btw my opinion is that :
Buyer get prices from a site that have lower price, Sellers get prices where there are higher prices (ignoring all other sites) all follow guides but the guide that give advantages.
Btw when you check "PC of xxxx" you can check all threads with that key word and comparate values and make a "middle price"...the problem is that "PPL WANT BE PAYED BUT DONT WANT PAY", and Always try to pay less possible for an item..Powerseller help too in all this...

Gill Halendt · Jan 14, 2010, 10:59 AM // 10:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mcsnake85

Ok suppose you are right..so all prices on GW and prices in this or other sites are random?
I understand that prices are made just to have a idea of what an item worth,btw a lot of ppl refer to this site or other when they sell/buy...btw my opinion is that :
Buyer get prices from a site that have lower price, Sellers get prices where there are higher prices (ignoring all other sites) all follow guides but the guide that give advantages.
Btw when you check "PC of xxxx" you can check all threads with that key word and comparate values and make a "middle price"...the problem is that "PPL WANT BE PAYED BUT DONT WANT PAY", and Always try to pay less possible for an item..Powerseller help too in all this...

McSnake85: il tuo inglese mi fa sanguinare gli occhi...

Scherzo, non prendertela...

Mcsnake85 · Jan 14, 2010, 11:01 AM // 11:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

McSnake85: il tuo inglese mi fa sanguinare gli occhi...

Scherzo, non prendertela...

e vabbò...cerco di fare del mio meglio! =P

mrvrod · Jan 14, 2010, 11:05 AM // 11:05

your english is better than my italian, and my last name ends in a vowel

Lusciious · Jan 14, 2010, 12:55 PM // 12:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mcsnake85

Ok suppose you are right..so all prices on GW and prices in this or other sites are random?
I understand that prices are made just to have a idea of what an item worth,btw a lot of ppl refer to this site or other when they sell/buy...btw my opinion is that :
Buyer get prices from a site that have lower price, Sellers get prices where there are higher prices (ignoring all other sites) all follow guides but the guide that give advantages.
Btw when you check "PC of xxxx" you can check all threads with that key word and comparate values and make a "middle price"...the problem is that "PPL WANT BE PAYED BUT DONT WANT PAY", and Always try to pay less possible for an item..Powerseller help too in all this...

you keep talking about how people get their prices, be it sellers or buyers, from sites but aren't these sites considered guides ? so back to the first question ..

Quote:

In other website there are prices, here there are prices..btw ppl still overprice items....
A guide dont change nothing.

how does a guide not change anything ?

say you found a very rare item . that only you have (some other people also have it but they don't play anymore) . you decide to sell it at any price you want . and when others find it, because only you have the "first" one and you set it's price, others think that that is the price of it . how would you explain that then ?

so by making a guide and probably posting it on GWG and keeping it updated constantly would solve the problem of overpriced ectos .

Mcsnake85 · Jan 14, 2010, 02:22 PM // 14:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lusciious

you keep talking about how people get their prices, be it sellers or buyers, from sites but aren't these sites considered guides ? so back to the first question ..

how does a guide not change anything ?

say you found a very rare item . that only you have (some other people also have it but they don't play anymore) . you decide to sell it at any price you want . and when others find it, because only you have the "first" one and you set it's price, others think that that is the price of it . how would you explain that then ?

so by making a guide and probably posting it on GWG and keeping it updated constantly would solve the problem of overpriced ectos .

ok ok and ok..i agree with you...first that find a rare items SET the price...ok nothing to say...im just asking an asnwer to a simple question.
Suppose you find an item : The LOL Blade...you are the first,so you can sell it for how much you want...we are ok about that?ok, then you say : It worth 500k..or you say it worth 25e...ok, then ppl check ectos price and say..ahh ok it worth 500k...So all ppl agree that THE LOL Blade worth 500k or 25e..Now you have set the price,so all ppl that found it sell it for 500k/25e.
Now, a lot of ppl sell it and ppl farm a lot of them...after months ppl do this something change: Ectos price..they drop...ok np,you say it worth 500k?just increase the number of ecto you need to buy it...suppose the worth half..so you need add +25e...so the LOL Blade worth 50e!!Something changed?NO NOTHING...Now after months something changed : ectos price raise..PPL keep sell them for 50e!!!WOW...WTF?Price double?you start from 500k and all ppl agree with e=X and for e=X/2 but now..with e=x*2 all changed and price raise...
Question: How possible?PPl speculating on this?